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	<title>Comments on: Counting the Cost</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redkiteprayer.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1956" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956</link>
	<description>Insight • Analysis • Inspiration</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:41:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Souleur</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-7358</link>
		<dc:creator>Souleur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-7358</guid>
		<description>Tom V:  I truly appreciate your comments, and I have been there.  Lachlan says it all well, and I could well enough stop there, but here is a little more.  

No doubt, I thought the same as you did as I mentioned, until recent.  Perhaps its a little senility setting in or that last crash that split my helmet 5 ways last fall, but my mindset has changed with time and that may even be a good thing.  I would like to think my experience has led me to better, perhaps its not, but it is what it is.  I simply hope your open to this concept of the quality of our ride, the quality of our passion and that its a worthy pursuit for each of us. Your right, I have seen a good many riders that dish it out (money) and it doesn&#039;t buy speed, its not length but they do seem to have something, appreciation for something we all have dearly in common, the ride.  And if your open to this which I think you are, perhaps some years from now, like i did, I hope you think of that when your successful.  When you throw down money for others think your crazy for, or lace up thoughtfully your perfect hoops or when you don a sick jersey/bib kit.  In the meantime, its all about heart and showing everyone around ours is made of and striking a balance in all of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom V:  I truly appreciate your comments, and I have been there.  Lachlan says it all well, and I could well enough stop there, but here is a little more.  </p>
<p>No doubt, I thought the same as you did as I mentioned, until recent.  Perhaps its a little senility setting in or that last crash that split my helmet 5 ways last fall, but my mindset has changed with time and that may even be a good thing.  I would like to think my experience has led me to better, perhaps its not, but it is what it is.  I simply hope your open to this concept of the quality of our ride, the quality of our passion and that its a worthy pursuit for each of us. Your right, I have seen a good many riders that dish it out (money) and it doesn&#8217;t buy speed, its not length but they do seem to have something, appreciation for something we all have dearly in common, the ride.  And if your open to this which I think you are, perhaps some years from now, like i did, I hope you think of that when your successful.  When you throw down money for others think your crazy for, or lace up thoughtfully your perfect hoops or when you don a sick jersey/bib kit.  In the meantime, its all about heart and showing everyone around ours is made of and striking a balance in all of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Lachlan</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-7348</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-7348</guid>
		<description>Tom V... yes you missed the message.

I&#039;m pretty sure that no one here on this blog, of all places measured their dedication to the sport by the cash they spend. Far from it

By my 10 grand bike is still a  fraction of what people earning a tenth of my salary spend on their car... and for trips they could easily do by walking, riding or public transport.

Motorbikes, cars, Paragliding, boating, skiing with chalets in the alps or rockies....all far far more expensive than cycling. And also pretty popular.

Many of the greatest riders I&#039;ve raced with rode on cheap kit. Many rode on really, really expensive kit.  But whats great with cycling compared to many other technically involved sports, is that compared just to the average alcohol/drink/drugs/car/clothes etc expenses of even a normal middle inncome person, you can ride a f-ing awesome road bike for less a month.

Pay your money and take your choice. 

For my money the decent (and even the very expensive) cycling kit gives you a HUGE return on the investment in your life, that no car, or bigger apartment, or better bottle of booze will deliver.

And sad though it may seem, I&#039;ve rarely met a cyclist who did&#039;nt ride that bit further, faster and with more of the spirit you suggest, when they have a bit of new kit... from new socks and bar tape to new Edge-rimmed carbon wheel sets : O )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom V&#8230; yes you missed the message.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that no one here on this blog, of all places measured their dedication to the sport by the cash they spend. Far from it</p>
<p>By my 10 grand bike is still a  fraction of what people earning a tenth of my salary spend on their car&#8230; and for trips they could easily do by walking, riding or public transport.</p>
<p>Motorbikes, cars, Paragliding, boating, skiing with chalets in the alps or rockies&#8230;.all far far more expensive than cycling. And also pretty popular.</p>
<p>Many of the greatest riders I&#8217;ve raced with rode on cheap kit. Many rode on really, really expensive kit.  But whats great with cycling compared to many other technically involved sports, is that compared just to the average alcohol/drink/drugs/car/clothes etc expenses of even a normal middle inncome person, you can ride a f-ing awesome road bike for less a month.</p>
<p>Pay your money and take your choice. </p>
<p>For my money the decent (and even the very expensive) cycling kit gives you a HUGE return on the investment in your life, that no car, or bigger apartment, or better bottle of booze will deliver.</p>
<p>And sad though it may seem, I&#8217;ve rarely met a cyclist who did&#8217;nt ride that bit further, faster and with more of the spirit you suggest, when they have a bit of new kit&#8230; from new socks and bar tape to new Edge-rimmed carbon wheel sets : O )</p>
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		<title>By: Tom V</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-7315</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-7315</guid>
		<description>I found this article very interesting, thanks. I&#039;m the college freshman you described, trying to bust into the collegiate racing scene with limited finances. Frankly, I was shocked by the prices of competitive cycling. $100 for a pair of pedals that probably cost $15 for shimano to manufacture? $100+ for a kit that requires less fabric than the average pair of underwear? I respect that nice gear is worth it, but...really? Its like bicycling exists in a separate, fantasy world. A world in which $200 is what you pay for a pair of shoes, not the money that could feed a family for weeks. Perhaps I&#039;ve missed the message, but I don&#039;t think the amount of cash that you spend on your gear equates to your dedication to the sport. I think cyclists should put more emphasis on their training and spirit, rather than using dollar signs to measure their sacrifice and progress as athletes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this article very interesting, thanks. I&#8217;m the college freshman you described, trying to bust into the collegiate racing scene with limited finances. Frankly, I was shocked by the prices of competitive cycling. $100 for a pair of pedals that probably cost $15 for shimano to manufacture? $100+ for a kit that requires less fabric than the average pair of underwear? I respect that nice gear is worth it, but&#8230;really? Its like bicycling exists in a separate, fantasy world. A world in which $200 is what you pay for a pair of shoes, not the money that could feed a family for weeks. Perhaps I&#8217;ve missed the message, but I don&#8217;t think the amount of cash that you spend on your gear equates to your dedication to the sport. I think cyclists should put more emphasis on their training and spirit, rather than using dollar signs to measure their sacrifice and progress as athletes.</p>
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		<title>By: Souleur</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5770</link>
		<dc:creator>Souleur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5770</guid>
		<description>good points DanO, keep up the good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good points DanO, keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan O</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5744</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5744</guid>
		<description>Great post and responses.

I commute a few days per week - though slack off big time December through February - then crank it up again.  Overall, I ride more miles then drive, which makes it easy to justify some nice bikes.  But do I commute to save money?  Not really - I&#039;d do so even it was more expensive then driving.  I do so to squeeze riding time in, which is tight being Family Guy.  The money savings is just an added bonus.

Being Family Guy and the one paycheck household - money is also tight - so I do purchase some items online to save dough.  Not to be cheap, but to make it happen at all.  I&#039;m currently building up a mountain bike for my 10 year old son and everything has been purchased online so far.  Without some of the incredible savings found online, this project would be toast - or he&#039;d be riding/racing a 30 pound tank.

As an ex-bike shop guy myself (many years ago), I feel bad about this in a way.  I&#039;d hate to see the local bikes shops close, but I can&#039;t afford what I&#039;m looking to do at retail prices.  

Back in my dual income, no kids days - I purchased items from shops I dug on principle alone - didn&#039;t care if it was a bit more dough.  At this stage in my life, I can&#039;t justify that on bike stuff - well, higher end bike stuff anyway. In a few years, when we again have two incomes, I&#039;ll head down to the local shop and try to make up for it.  Over the past 25+ years I&#039;ve also contributed a fair amount of coin to local bike shops with business as well.

Even so, I also realize we&#039;re in a changing world - where things are manufactured and how they&#039;re sold - not the same as 20, or even 10 years ago.  Some of this change is cool, some of it is not.  I think businesses, including the local bike shop will adapt.  There will always be a need for the local shop, no matter how much stuff is sold online.  I think some shops can adapt by selling locally and online.  By the number of &quot;real&quot; bike shops selling on eBay, that&#039;s already occurring.

Interesting stuff for sure, and we&#039;ll see what the future will bring to the bike industry.  It will always remain in some shape or form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and responses.</p>
<p>I commute a few days per week &#8211; though slack off big time December through February &#8211; then crank it up again.  Overall, I ride more miles then drive, which makes it easy to justify some nice bikes.  But do I commute to save money?  Not really &#8211; I&#8217;d do so even it was more expensive then driving.  I do so to squeeze riding time in, which is tight being Family Guy.  The money savings is just an added bonus.</p>
<p>Being Family Guy and the one paycheck household &#8211; money is also tight &#8211; so I do purchase some items online to save dough.  Not to be cheap, but to make it happen at all.  I&#8217;m currently building up a mountain bike for my 10 year old son and everything has been purchased online so far.  Without some of the incredible savings found online, this project would be toast &#8211; or he&#8217;d be riding/racing a 30 pound tank.</p>
<p>As an ex-bike shop guy myself (many years ago), I feel bad about this in a way.  I&#8217;d hate to see the local bikes shops close, but I can&#8217;t afford what I&#8217;m looking to do at retail prices.  </p>
<p>Back in my dual income, no kids days &#8211; I purchased items from shops I dug on principle alone &#8211; didn&#8217;t care if it was a bit more dough.  At this stage in my life, I can&#8217;t justify that on bike stuff &#8211; well, higher end bike stuff anyway. In a few years, when we again have two incomes, I&#8217;ll head down to the local shop and try to make up for it.  Over the past 25+ years I&#8217;ve also contributed a fair amount of coin to local bike shops with business as well.</p>
<p>Even so, I also realize we&#8217;re in a changing world &#8211; where things are manufactured and how they&#8217;re sold &#8211; not the same as 20, or even 10 years ago.  Some of this change is cool, some of it is not.  I think businesses, including the local bike shop will adapt.  There will always be a need for the local shop, no matter how much stuff is sold online.  I think some shops can adapt by selling locally and online.  By the number of &#8220;real&#8221; bike shops selling on eBay, that&#8217;s already occurring.</p>
<p>Interesting stuff for sure, and we&#8217;ll see what the future will bring to the bike industry.  It will always remain in some shape or form.</p>
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		<title>By: Souleur</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5469</link>
		<dc:creator>Souleur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 14:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5469</guid>
		<description>@slappy: you nailed something I have been thinking on quite a lot lately...and your absolutely right on.

@dacrizzow: thanks for the comments, I agree wholeheartedly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@slappy: you nailed something I have been thinking on quite a lot lately&#8230;and your absolutely right on.</p>
<p>@dacrizzow: thanks for the comments, I agree wholeheartedly.</p>
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		<title>By: slappy</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5392</link>
		<dc:creator>slappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5392</guid>
		<description>xtra cycle,    big dummy,  utility hauling bike will blow the mind of any family who can handle it. turns the car into the monster you never want to touch.  i love mine so much i rode it across the country. probably won&#039;t do that again, (i&#039;ll take my niner)   but man o man  the utilitarian aspects of the bicycle that the rest of the world knew/knows so well, are slowly coming to light in this country, while the rest of the world attempts to mimic the &#039;merican car culture.. ah crap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>xtra cycle,    big dummy,  utility hauling bike will blow the mind of any family who can handle it. turns the car into the monster you never want to touch.  i love mine so much i rode it across the country. probably won&#8217;t do that again, (i&#8217;ll take my niner)   but man o man  the utilitarian aspects of the bicycle that the rest of the world knew/knows so well, are slowly coming to light in this country, while the rest of the world attempts to mimic the &#8216;merican car culture.. ah crap</p>
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		<title>By: dacrizzow</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5292</link>
		<dc:creator>dacrizzow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5292</guid>
		<description>i was a broke musician at one point but gear price was never an issue. if i could afford it or not might have been but never that something was &quot;overpriced&quot;. as i&#039;ve grown i&#039;ve learned that you truly do get what you pay for. sometimes the cheap comes out very expensive.we all have responsibilities and obligations but what biking gives to me and what i end up paying i call a deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i was a broke musician at one point but gear price was never an issue. if i could afford it or not might have been but never that something was &#8220;overpriced&#8221;. as i&#8217;ve grown i&#8217;ve learned that you truly do get what you pay for. sometimes the cheap comes out very expensive.we all have responsibilities and obligations but what biking gives to me and what i end up paying i call a deal.</p>
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		<title>By: James (again)</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5257</link>
		<dc:creator>James (again)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5257</guid>
		<description>I always thought that the perfect business would be to do only bike repairs.  The overhead would be small in that you only need lots of little things like bearings, cables, lubes, etc.  Most serious riders probably have the bulk of the tools one requires.  The key thing would be a good location.  A couple of people could probably make a pretty decent living just performing bike repairs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought that the perfect business would be to do only bike repairs.  The overhead would be small in that you only need lots of little things like bearings, cables, lubes, etc.  Most serious riders probably have the bulk of the tools one requires.  The key thing would be a good location.  A couple of people could probably make a pretty decent living just performing bike repairs!</p>
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		<title>By: Lachlan</title>
		<link>http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956&#038;cpage=1#comment-5245</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1956#comment-5245</guid>
		<description>two thoughts:

1) $$COST-as a non car owner for many years, I&#039;m quite happy that my state of the art bike is still a third of the cost of the BMWs many a colleague drives. : )


2) FAMILY COST - as fairly new dad, I do find it essentially impossible to hold down a professional career and ride more than a couple of hours a week without being a truly negligent parent! (unless you really outsource all the household chores and child-care!) The bike will have to hold off a bit until the kids are older  : o )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>two thoughts:</p>
<p>1) $$COST-as a non car owner for many years, I&#8217;m quite happy that my state of the art bike is still a third of the cost of the BMWs many a colleague drives. : )</p>
<p>2) FAMILY COST &#8211; as fairly new dad, I do find it essentially impossible to hold down a professional career and ride more than a couple of hours a week without being a truly negligent parent! (unless you really outsource all the household chores and child-care!) The bike will have to hold off a bit until the kids are older  : o )</p>
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