Contador, Cheated?
The 2009 Tour de France is still being contested in Alberto Contador’s head. At least, if you follow the Spanish newspaper Marca, or most any other news outlet in Spain, it would seem that while Contador won the war, there is yet a PR battle to fight. Not a week has gone by without the paper running some story on the turmoil within Astana as reported by Contador or a teammate.
Lately, Contador’s target has been as much Bruyneel as Armstrong. He’s been quick to talk about the team’s politics and what he saw as Bruyneel’s attempts to isolate him within the team. It’s hard to say what the truth is and gossip has the value of sand at the beach, but one previous skirmish recently resurfaced that makes the situation a bit more curious.
At the end of the tour, everyone was abuzz about Contador having to catch a ride with his brother because all the team cars were shuttling Armstrong’s cadre. The first occasion was from atop Mont Ventoux, the second on the way to the final time trial. Bruyneel and Armstrong said Contador’s claims were completely false; we’ll never know.
What didn’t get the same level of attention was Contador’s claim that he didn’t get top quality equipment. The claim has been translated a few different ways, but the insinuation was that Armstrong had better equipment than Contador did. Until this week, there was really no way to know just what he meant.
As he said/he saids go, this gets a bit confusing. It begins with Contador statement he didn’t get top quality wheels and had to go buy wheels for the prologue in Monaco. Armstrong shot back and said Contador had exactly the same wheels as his teammates. This week, in a blog entry on Marca, writer Josu Garai wrote that Contador told him and members of Contador’s entourage “confirmed” that Contador purchased a set of Lightweight wheels. Yes, the ungodly expensive, handmade carbon fiber wheels that hail from the land of der Jan.
Well purchase them he may have, but race them he never did. I’ve gone back through the archives of John Pierce, Yuzuru Sunada and Roberto Bettini and viewed profile shots of Contador in each of the mountain stages and the time trials. In each of the shots you can see Bontrager logos on the wheels.
Now disc wheels are all pretty similar, right? So Contador could have been running a Lightweight disc in the rear and a deep-profile-rim wheel in the front, both with Bontrager decals, right? Not so fast. The Lightweight disc has a transparent finish to it, so that you can see the carbon fiber internal spoke pattern. It looks nothing like anyone else’s disc. Similarly, the Bontrager-branded, HED-designed H3 front wheel and Jet disc rear wheel look nothing like any Lightweight. Neither the H3 nor the Jet disc are offered at retail by Bontrager, but because Bontrager licenses HED technology, the re-branded wheels are done with both companies’ full knowledge and consent.
So that leaves the wheels that Contador used on the climbing stages. The high-flange appearance of the Lightweights really can’t be confused with the utter flanglessness of the Bontrager Race XXX Lite tubulars. The white spokes, the beveled rim profile, it’s a distinct look.
A quick e-mail to a source at Trek also confirmed what is standard practice with sponsors: Each Astana rider at the Tour had exactly the same equipment, right down to the slowest of the domestiques.
Is it possible that Bruyneel told the mechanics to withhold wheels from Contador? In theory, maybe, but again a quick check of the photos shows he’s on the same wheels as Armstrong and the rest, so that variety of crazy didn’t take place. It’s true that Armstrong’s bikes and wheels had unique decaling, but unique equipment wasn’t limited to Armstrong as evidenced by the all-white Madone Contador rode for most of the Tour and the personalized black and yellow bike he rode on stage 21 into Paris.
It’s not hard to understand the Spanish media’s dislike of Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel. Alberto Contador is a national hero and the media has largely portrayed the conflict between Contador and Armstrong as a Hatfield/McCoy blood feud.
That Contador is happy to be free of Armstrong should go without saying, but until Armstrong’s return to the sport, it seemed that Contador and Bruyneel had a good relationship. Since parting ways, Contador has been spare in his praise of his former director and Bruyneel has spoken openly of how he believed success went to the Tour champion’s head, making him harder to work with.
And what of Trek? Insiders there are mum on the point, but having the Tour de France champion claim he was shortchanged on equipment must smart.
No matter whether you take a side or not or whose side you take if you do, the claim by Contador that he didn’t get the same equipment as his teammates and had to go buy his own is absurd. It begs the question why he would say such a thing. Seemingly, being wronged by teammates, staff and sponsor make him an even greater champion in the eyes of his countrymen. But with the truth being as weird as it was, one can wonder why that story isn’t enough.
Images: John Pierce, Photosport International
Nice work going through photos and comparing them to statements made.
Perhaps the real reason why Alberto didn’t get rides in the team car with Lance & Johan is that there wasn’t enough room for a 3rd ego…
While we may never know what went on within the team, it appears to me to be a management problem, maybe not of roles or tactics, but of mouths. The comments made by Alberto, Lance, but more importantly by Johan, in regard to everything have to be some of the most non-professional I’ve ever heard/read.
It is the responsibility of the DS to keep things professional and to maintain at least the image of cohesion; Johan poured gasoline on open flames. Regardless of the truth, all of the childish banter and back stabbing have left a negative impression in my mind.
We know who the strongest rider was, Alberto. True or not, why embelish?
Who’s to say that he didn’t buy the wheels, but was then prevented from running them by some clause in his contract that would deny him a bonus payment or something if he didn’t run what would appear to be standard Trek-issue wheels? And who’s to say that Armstrong didn’t have three sets of Lightweights in the team truck – just in case – and that Contador asked for a set (thinking he’d get to ride them) but Lance denied him (all the while never having intended to use the wheels and only having hoped to deploy them in his psycho-war w/ Contador? Just saying…just b/c he didn’t *ride* a set of wheels doesn’t mean that Armstrong didn’t have them in the team truck, and that Contador asked for a pair (thinking he’d be allowed to ride them) but LA/Bru denied him.
Astana did source their disc wheels from lightweight starting in ’08, with Trek’s blessing after Bontrager decided that coming up with a disc wasn’t worth the effort.
These wheels as expected were painted, so as not to be easily identified. Some Astana riders still used these wheels in the TTT & ITT (Contador for sure in the TTT),
while a few others, Lance included rode rebadged Zipps (Lance, due to his SRAM connection/investment)
The Team didn’t & hasn’t used HED disc wheels … especially not HED Jet Discs & Stinger Discs, since they are of hazy UCI legality since they are spoked wheels with a bonded fairing…I doubt any Pro Tour Team would want to bother with the potential hassle…
My understanding was Alberto wheel issue was only related to his TT wheels. One theory could be Contador was supplied with a sub par H3 front(s).
This wheel (as fine as it is) has be notorious for it’s lack of trueness… I’ve seen 1/4″ out of true (As a dealer I’ve never seen a perfectly true H3… ever ).
It’s possible he was given poor wheels, forcing him to source out better quality H3′s & disc for his individual TT’s… (Since his wheels where different in the TTT, where it would be in the Team’s interest to supply A1 wheels)
His disc did change for the ITT’s … possibly again a necessity due to sub par wheels supplied for those stages.
What better way to (mentally) screw with a rider than giving him sub par equipment? Contador not being supplied with top quality wheels is plausible… I suspect some of the story is being lost in translation (and misrepresented as not being supplied ANY wheels)…
I’m with Alberto on this one. Though he would do well to consult a PR firm before he begins a slanging match with the Man Who Fights Cancer. It’s fairly clear that Bruyneel knows what side his bread is buttered. Regardless of whether Contador received equivalent treatment within the team, he is the only one who can possibly lose in a slanging match with what is now Team Radio Shack. L.A. seems to be a polarizing force in many situations and it’s clear you are either with him or against him.
History will show whos pedals spoke the loudest.
Thanks everyone for the interesting comments.
Touriste-Routier: You bring up an interesting point regarding the egos. In Bruyneel’s defense, I don’t think there is an example in the history of the Tour in which a team director arrived at the race with two riders capable of winning the race and managed to keep them both in line. I need to check this with Bill McGann or Owen Mulholland, but a quick check of my personal database tells me that every instance of two potential winners on one team has been a nightmare.
Champs: Exactly right. You can’t be both victim and victor and if you’re going to choose one….
Joe Papp: I must admit yours is always an interesting and thought-provoking perspective. Let’s suppose he did buy the Lightweights; the question is why? Surely no one would suggest that Contador is so unsophisticated as to lack an understanding of his own contract and sponsorship agreements. As to suggesting that Armstrong may have had sets of Lightweights, well, someone would really only suggest that if they really didn’t understand Armstrong. For better or worse, he’s a company man, through and through. I’ve seen him training incognito—in an all-black kit—in Malibu and the only non-sponsor equipment on his bike was his SRM. Similarly, when he did some testing at the ADT Event Center velodrome—presumably for a run at the hour record, all of his equipment was by the book, save for the SRMs on both bikes.
Mick: With the exception of your statement about the trueness of the H3 wheels, your suggestions are far enough off base I won’t bother to refute them. The photos speak for themselves.
Randomactsofcycling: Can you explain a bit? I’m not sure what you mean by you are “with Alberto on this one”? In my reading, there’s really nothing to suggest this is a Lance/Alberto issue. He made a claim that he had to buy wheels to race on; some of the Spanish reports don’t specify TT wheels, so it’s open to some interpretation. So either he bought wheels and raced them, or he raced his team-supplied wheels. The photos state unequivocally that he did the latter.
Oh dear, Padraig. Has your lavish service to the image of Lance Armstrong really devolved to this? You have been provided with a number of explanations of how Contador would dare such a thing and you can’t bring yourself to see any of it. Instead you hold to the scurrilous accusations of Bruyneel and Armstrong that Contador is just some ego maniac that continues some verbal war with the two of them. Are you kidding? Bruyneel and Armstrong have been at it non-stop. And who can blame them? Their entire project is one of image–a false one, but an image nonetheless and Contador has openly challenged it. PR of the most aggressive kind needed to be adopted and thankfully they have you to help them. I know you will never see this situation any other way even if you were provided with conclusive forensic evidence, i.e. video tape, receipts, photos, whatever. Your mind is made up. We get it. But when faced with all the explanations provided for you here that you decide to blithely ignore, could you perhaps give a second thought to continuing on this crusade of yours and apply your significant talents to other areas of cycling beside the defense of those two?
Regardless of the equipment situation, I think this is clearly a Lance/Alberto thing! Bruyneel is just the lucky one that had Armstrong fall back into his lap when he announced the comeback. Bruyneel is a puppet. Quite a canny one I will admit, but he’ll do whatever he can to ensure his gravy train runs smoothly.
I think it’s fairly obvious when you have the standout favourite to win the race (Contador), the only current rider to have won all three Grand Tours, and his ‘team-mate’ exacerbates a split in the race and leaves him behind???? Every other D.S. would be screaming into their radio telling their men to sit-up, wait for the Team Leader and tow him back to the front.
It’s clearly a Lance(with Bruyneel in pocket)/Alberto thing.
I know it doesn’t dispute Contador’s claim, but he was one of three Asana riders on the Trek Speed Concept TT bike (the other two being Lance and Levi). I have a hard time believing that Astana/Trek set Alberto up with this bike but then denied him other equipment.
Just as a comment, since I am no Landis supporter and have never read his book, but I belive that Landis claims to have been denied equipment while in service of Armstrong.
To my memory, he claims to have bought his own TT equipment (for training).
A quick search however, reveals no such comments online.
Anyone read the book?
Padraig,
Astana has never used HED disc wheels.
They have used Lightweights since JB took over the team, & Trek gave them the OK to use them. They paint them & re decal them.
BTW, do you need proof (since you claim the pic’s don’t lie)
You are correct, a HED JetDisc does not look like a Lightweight disc, but you can’t seem to tell the difference regardless. I laugh at your assertion they even use these wheels.
A correction Lance did use Lightweight disc wheels this past Tour. So study your pic’s a bit more, maybe in better light.
They have never rebranded the H3 wheel (going back to Postal days) the closest they’ve come is Lance did have a dual branded H3 during the final ITT.
Your dismissal of Papp’s scenario is laughable & certainly shows a very selective memory. Lance has ridden Lightweights during his career (in the Tour. Yup! he’s a company man that is certain, but he will also not hesitate to use what he perceives as the BEST. Remember he refused to use early Rolf wheels, instead opting for Mavic. Just because you see him training in SoCal on sponsor gear…so What? I’ll ride anything given to me during training too.
You certainly have very selective memory on issue dealing with Lance
It is not too hard to conceive a scenerio where Alberto was given less than optimal wheels, Twisted, through translation into no wheels.
Wheels that could be out of true (H3 or Lightweight disc) Incorrectly adjusted (hubs), and on. I doubt Contador had to race on sub par wheels, but I could see him having to swap out wheels before a given stage because “something” wasn’t right. He may have bought his “own” wheels to guarantee proper working order, (& that would cover a lightweight disc & H3 which he used in the individual time trials)
I can totally conceive the Gruesome twosome messing with their Rider. There’s a track record for that.
.
George: Landis requested a second TT bike to train on. Lance was the only rider who got a TT bike to train on. The book was an interesting read. I know for a while you could find it in .99 Cent stores.
Pitstopfix-
Well said, I think Padraig is suffering from some selective memory here.. The pics of LA on LW wheels in the Tour are very common; it was the Alpe D’Huez TT after all..
To your point; at that level, less than the best wheels is about the same as no wheels. IMHO, if you undestand cycling, you understand the relevance of wheels.. Think about it; back stage warfair in a way that the vast majority of the public won’t recognize. Brilliant in a crafty sort of way; sounds pretty typical from what I have read.
Scott
Its an interesting ‘after the fact’ discussion, that will continue to eek out information here and there until july arrives, and it is going to be interesting on stage 1 and following, I for one wouldn’t be surprised to see a hand pump through the ole front wheel to settle this one out.
What we continue to see in my mind represents a Ménage à trois of a relationship between Bruyneel/Lance and Contador. Its well established the undying faithfulness of Bruyneel has for Lance, and likewise Lance has for Bruyneel. The fact that Contador fell out of loving favor with Bruyneel/Armstrong, and that Contador impotently could not fit in, really isn’t remarkable. Everyone knows three’s a crowd, especially in that circle, all puns intended. The fact that he continues to declare his impotence and victimization in such, perhaps vicariously reliving the concept that he was entitled to something more and that he deserved better than a win in the Tour of 09, only will add to the humility and possible utter depression he will partake in when the Prom swings around that last turn on the Champs-Élysées IF HE does not win. Contador would do well to just shut his mouth and train with the rage that is within himself, like his honorable predecessor Big Mig.
There is absolutely no matching Bruyneels PR machine, this simply reveals that for us all. Interesting to me that Bruyneel has not really denied nor refuted nor acknowledged much of this at all, so Lance does?
Oh, and the wheels, good eye Padraig;-)
Padraig,
I think you need to eat some crow on this one. Lance has been on LW wheels and Lance has been on equipment other than Trek. He is a company man in as much as he needs to be, but let’s be clear, he will use whatever he feels he needs.
Here is my issue. Strategy and Tactics – Strategy being macro and tactics being micro. You just penned an entire article on one specific accused tactic against Conti – namely buying his own wheels. To buttress the article you do some pseudo forensic photo examination. Why? Are you really going to argue that on a strategic level Conti wasn’t, at the least, having little to no support from Lance AND from the team DS AND from the majority of the team. Are you really going to say this didn’t happen? If not, then why pen an article on some small tactic levied against the DS? It isn’t logical to say “well, they worked in collusion against the guy, but in this case they didn’t.” Let me take that back, you could say that, only if you penned an article on the strategy, but you didn’t.
I would also point out that all this is consistent with Landis and his claims – that is, you get sub par support on all levels if you go outside Lance. The fact that his book is 99 cents doesn’t mean it’s no true – typical attack the messenger and all eyes with be off the message.
Chalk this one up to yet another supportive article on Lance, Bruyneel and Trek. I’ll give you this, I know where you’re going to come out before I even read word one.
Oh my god. The “what could have happened” scenario by Joe Papp is so ridiculous that I can’t believe anybody with an ounce of brain would take it seriously. I’m no Lance sycophant….the guys a dick, but Papps conspiracy theory would make any semi-intelligent persons head hurt. Who needs facts anyways?
first off let me say that watching lance is what got me into road racing. but watching his interviews during the tour last year was really uncomfortable for me. there was lot’s of odd body language and such that just made me not trust his persona any more. as far as these accusations from each side goes i’m sure there’s some truth to both sides. i’m sure contidor is somewhat of an overconfident punk, and i’m sure that lance by now get’s really offended by anyone who doesn’t respect his legend. go back to the early lance interviews and see how cocky lance was before he became the PR puppet he seems to potray these days. bottom line for me is that lance seems to be more about winning and less about biking. representing such a typical U.S. attitude that i think alot of people are just done with.
Ontherivet: I don’t think there is anything ridiculous about the different scenarios Joe Papp has proposed as explanations for Contador’s statement. I suppose that means I have less than an ounce of brain, which I can live with. But I wonder if you could perhaps address exactly how his scenarios are “ridiculous”? I thought not.
@Sophrosune….Well for starters the whole thing was completely made up in Papps head…not one single fact, zero, nada, it’s no different than me stating that Contador won the Tour because he threatened the other contenders with death by Ninjas.
Yes, there’s a difference and I think the difference is pretty obvious to everyone, including you. There have been some facts provided here about the history of wheel use by Astana and other Armstrong teams that add a great deal of credence to these different scenarios along with just common sense. But neither history nor common sense can be used to account for ninja’s and Contador’s win. Stop. Take a breath. Have a think. Don’t get angry and explain what is ridiculous about Joe Papp’s proposed explanations, otherwise there’s a number of people in this thread you have just accused of not having an ounce of brain. Of course, if what you really wanted to do was to call someone names, well then just nevermind.
“otherwise there’s a number of people in this thread you have just accused of not having an ounce of brain”.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Everyone: I’m amazed (and a little disappointed) that if I even mention Lance in a post, the comments get completely hijacked by a discussion pro/con of him. And because he is, at least with this readership, such a polarizing figure, things can get a little less than cordial.
I have a request: You’re a bright bunch and I’m sure we’d have a great time riding together. Let’s keep this friendly. Please.
Now, I’m not going to discuss each other assertions about who rode what where, but a lot of things have been suggested that are just plain wrong, such as Lance riding Lightweights at the Alpe d’Huez time trial. I was there that day and he was on Bontragers. Period. Now, I will concede that the Postal team abandoned the Rolf wheels because the rims cracked under the strain of an actual PRO pedaling. I was one of the first to report on this on the old Bicycle Guide web site after attending a training camp they had in Ramona, Calif. in 1998. I don’t see that as a Lance issue; it was a team-wide need and not exactly relevant to the conversation.
The real issue here (and what I’d really like comments to address) is Contador. A simple check of the photos provided will show he’s not on Lightweights.
Padraig is right, keep it civil. Calling people names, accusing people of not having a brain. If you really feel so inclined to do that go take yourself to the myriad of other sites that condone such behavior. If this were a group ride some people would be getting pulled out of the group and would get a stern tongue lashing.
Padraig, I can say this, doing a simple search yields a good amount of sites that list LA as someone who has purchased lightweights. Lance also has a history of suing people/companies who use his name. Remember pearl in 2000 even though they were a 1999 sponsor. That was well before he was the name brand he is now. Not that this has anything to do with LA cheating Conti out of some wheels, but it’s still something.
I see Lance, I see a pair of Lightweights and I see a yellow jersey. No helmet means 2004 or less, without berry floor on the bibs I think it’s 2002 and the frame seems to suggest that, too. Bontrager wheels the 2003 official sponsor, but I can’t find 2002, though I do see their red strip on the front hub from DT swiss wheels. I agree, though, Conti, it appears, wasn’t on Lightweights, at least not this year, still, you can’t discount his DS not supporting. Did you not see versus where the camera was in the car and LA catches up and Johan yells for everyone to stop and do nothing. I doubt the same would have happened if that were, say, Landis back in the day.
http://www.rouesartisanales.over-blog.com/article-5828377.html
http://bontrager.com/history/next-level
I only see claims that he had to buy TT wheels. Here’s one example:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.marca.com/2009/11/20/ciclismo/1258724643.html&sl=es&tl=en
That would hold truth regarding buying a Lightweight disc wheel . Factor in misinterpretation through translation, his story certainly holds water.
Here’s a picture showing him definitively on a Lightweight disc in Monaco
http://www.flickr.com/photos/da_meniz/3782683946/sizes/o/
The custom graphics, to me, would indicate an outside job (ie: not team issue)
Now, you typed this above…
“It begins with Contador statement he didn’t get top quality wheels and had to go buy wheels for the prologue in Monaco”
So you could have saved some time pouring over pictures… His claim (not 3rd party) have been, he felt it necessary to source his own TT wheel (not road stage)
I have not seen any article claiming he had to buy wheels other than TT wheels.
It’s rather conceivable that Lightweight wheel, was translated & misrepresented as “wheels” in translation or second hand.
Correction, Lance rode either LW’s or ADA’s on Ventoux in ’02: http://photos.grahamwatson.com/Print-Gallery/TdF2002/10292515_fBmA2#715036869_npKsi
Ouch! Hit with a “if a shoe fits wear it”. Anyway, moving on. Padraig, the point of your original post was that you had seen some photos of Contador’s wheel and had conclusively determined that he was racing on standard issue Astana wheels. So, where are the wheels he supposedly bought under duress is the implied question and one of the implied answers is that he made up a bogus story to make his hardships under Armstrong and Bruyneel seem even more extreme. Or do I paint in an inaccurate picture? It seems that your readers have provided you with plausible explanations, photographs, various histories of wheel use by USP, Discovery and Astana. So, where do you stand now? Is Contador an ego-maniacal liar dreaming up stories to make Lance and Johan look bad, or is he telling the truth along with the other stories of not having a team car to bring him to the ITT start line, or down the mountain at Ventoux or his seat on the bus?
Wow Padraig! Kudos to you, this is the thread to end them all! It never stops!
I am concerned. About ninjas. As cited earlier in this thread. Now, my ancient Moser sports ancient SunTour rims. How to account for that? Sure, those rims are historically accurate for that bike, but I think ninjas are a more likely explanation. Ocham’s razor and all.
The only other extremely substantive thing I’d add to this debate is that facts, put in service of a pre-conceived notion, can be just as slippery as lies. For example, my wheels have actually been modified by ninjas (I saw them do it), but I used the fact of their historical accuracy (the wheels, not the ninjas) to distract from the idea that both Contador and Armstrong behaved like a couple of jackholes this summer. The preconceived notion is that I, not they, should be the world’s most famous cyclist.
Those do look like a set of lightweights on Lance going up Ventoux. I think given all of these we have a winner. Can we all at least agree that the guy rides Lightweights and he has, on several occasions, gone outside sponsors? I mean we’re talking someone who wears a different TT helmet from everyone else and the rest of the team because his researched spawned such a design. Not exactly sharing now is it? The post on Conti and saying he purchased TT wheels specifically seems to have merit – though I don’t know if that is or isn’t a LW on the rear wheel in the provided pic.
Nothing wrong with saying you stand corrected, Padraig. Da Robot, I know you feel the need to defend your boy, and while some of the posts are silly, most of them are inline. Your last post just added to the noise and given you have a part on the site, you just also added to the issue or rather demise of the site. Too bad.
@ velomonkey I honestly have no idea what you’re on about. I’m having trouble connecting all your dots. Perhaps I’m dim. Entirely probably, actually.
Wow, this one is going off the deep end fast.
True, Lance has used LW’s, but not for years. 2002? Maybe ’03 at the latest. Back when Lightweight’s technology was head-and-shoulders above anything else. Brands like Zipp and Bontrager have dramatically improved since than and LW’s really haven’t changed much. So he doesn’t ride them anymore, they’re not an advantage anymore. Except for disc wheels, apparently.
My guess is that Contador was getting nitpicky about his wheels and the team just said ‘Nope, this is what we’ve got.’ So Contador got mad and got his own.
I can’t imagine for a minute that there was any question of who was going to win the ’09 Tour. Not in Armstrong, Bruyneel’s mind, or anyone else. Maybe the team wasn’t going to bend over backward to help Contador, but it would be ridiculous to suggest they tried to sabotage him.
You want sabotage? This is sabotage (and dreadful bike handling!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2oQUC_5fw0
Yikes! Is this it? When challenged the arguments lean on the absurd? This is sort of what I was afraid of. But hey, it’s your site, Padraig and Da Robot. You win pick up the marbles.
Very interesting reading here, from pretty much everyone! Excelent perspectives from both… hmmm… “sides”
Food for off-season thought, certainly.
Whatever the outcome, whatever the case of who´s right, wrong, saint or devil, one thing Lance can be accused of and no one would argue is, the guy DOES make cycling more exciting!!! LOL
@ Sophrosune I have no argument here. I was merely trying to lighten things up a little. It seemed folks were getting into a heated argument about a set of wheels in a race that took place last summer. It just didn’t seem worth the heat, so I was trying to take it down a notch.
I wasn’t trying to defend Padraig, cause I’m not entirely sure what he thinks. I know that he’s big on proof, so I think he was trying to say that Contador’s contention didn’t hold water, given the available evidence. Other’s took issue with that.
I have no opinion. What’s interesting to me is that the elite, though they seem superhuman in many regards, revert always to their human frailties. Armstrong seems like a bully. Contador seems insecure.
I’m never going to know the whole truth, so these are only my impressions. No dark conspiracies. No stonewalling. No BS.
I apologize if my attempt at humor was misconstrued.
@ ALL I would only add that when you get passionate people together, whether they’re elite riders or armchair DSs like ourselves, friction usually ensues. So, perhaps it’s also interesting that those we would criticize for being petty, immature and petulant, are only behaving as we ourselves do in discussing their pettiness, immaturity and petulance. It’s very meta of us, isn’t it?
@Da Robot. I am often over sensitive to these matters, but I always try to take a high road. But I plead guilty to being too serious about the whole matter. In my defense, this was and is a contentious blog entry. It starts with the rather suggestive headline “Contador, Cheated?” I suppose we need to use that pause of the comma to interpret it as “Contador was cheated” rather than “Contador cheated”. Then it lays out some careful inspection of a few photographs as irrefutable fact that Contador was not riding wheels that were not standard team issue and suggest that Contador is engaged in some kind of negative PR campaign. My point of view: Contador did go out and buy wheels that he felt as though he needed to compete at the highest level and probably thought he shouldn’t have to do that. And can you blame him? Now does this make him an ego-maniac, insecure, a crybaby or whatever deragtory comment you want to apply to him? To me, no.
@Sophrosune I’m a big Contador fan myself. I’m glad he won, because I think he was the strongest in the race, and I’m ready for a new generation of stars myself. Was he mistreated by LA and JB? Maybe. I don’t know for sure. I just don’t have enough facts. That’s not a defense of LA and JB, nor is it an indictment of Contador. For me, there’s no black and white here, only gray.
From that gray, I can see that Contador won the race. He doesn’t need to say anything else. All he really has to say is, “I’m happy to have won the race.” It costs him nothing. Opening his mouth to level accusations of whatever stripe, and regardless of their merit, doesn’t really help him.
So while I understand, he’s a champion, and he feels he was hard done by, I only wish that he’d have sworn himself to the high road and let his riding do the talking. It has a lot to say. But there again, I’m only wishing something for him that I’m probably not capable of myself.
Sophrosune: To address your questions directly, yes, I do think you’ve read the post correctly. Beyond that, I don’t know what to tell you. Any number of readers insist they see Lightweights under riders. I’m not seeing it and I’ve checked archives beyond what I’m allowed to print. As for the team vehicle stuff, we’ll never know; there’s no objective way to register that. But Contador claimed he bought his own wheels to race; I should add, he doesn’t say he wasn’t permitted race them, which would indicate a claim that he raced them. That’s how I read it, anyway. So where are those wheels? Who knows? We don’t know he even bought them; there’s no objective evidence he did, just a claim on one Spanish blog. I’m not in a position to pass judgement on the guy, but I can say the statements don’t add up when the photographic evidence is considered.
So was Contador cheated? I don’t think this particular claim stands up. Does that mean I don’t think Armstrong played head games with him? Not by a longshot, but the question it gets me to thinking is just how much Armstrong got inside his head. Obviously it wasn’t enough for him to win the race (the 2009 Tour was 1985 in replay, but with LeMond not sitting up for Hinault this time) but you have to wonder if maybe Contador wouldn’t have raced so aggressively if Armstrong hadn’t been on so with the head games.
Oh my Gawd, did I just read a claim by you that perhaps Armstrong is the reason why Contador won the tour. I know you said he might not have raced as aggressively due to Armstrong, but come on, what the heck is this?
One thing you said prior, which I fully agree with, was that Contador would have won on Skill Shimano. The guy beat Armstrong – story done. If you want to make noise, and you are, then one could say Armsrong benefited by sitting on Wiggins wheel – which he did. One then as to wonder if 3rd would have gone to LA were it not for Garmin and Wiggo.
Dude. You. Are. Off. Your. Rocker. When it comes to LA.
Padraig,
So are you saying you don’t see LW/ADA wheels under LA in the Graham Watson picture? Not trying to drag this out but I really don’t see how you can deny those wheels being there as they are pretty distinctive in appearance. IIRC, at the time the story was even going around about how JB called Lightweight and was stunned that they would not give LA a pair of their wheels. His using them brought the uphill only(minimal braking track) version a lot press..
Another pic: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45132000/jpg/_45132092_45132091.jpg
Let’s try this one; it is pretty conclusive.. http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45132000/jpg/_45132092_45132091.jpg
The subject at hand is 2009 and the use of Lightweights during the 2009 Tour. That’s all I am addressing with the post.
Velomonkey: There’s a big difference between what I mused and what you extrapolated it into. Easy there.
Better yet: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45132000/jpg/_45132092_45132091.jpg
Padraig,
Once more for good measure
see this photo…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/da_meniz/3782683946/sizes/o/
You can clearly see the carbon webbing of a Lightweight disc under the full wheel decal of Contador’s disc wheel.
(a feature of LW’s disc, something you even made mention of in the body of your article)
The issue at hand is Lightweight wheels…
& whether Contador bought his own (TIME TRIAL) wheel(s)
That’s a Lighweight (disc) wheel…
That’s Contador
It’s during the 2009 TDF (specifically during the Prologue)
It (the wheel) obviously has non team issue graphics applied…
if he purchased this wheel, the non team issue graphics make even more sense.
I’ve only seen claims Contador had to buy TT wheel(s)
You even wrote that in the body of your own article
You seem to be off on a tangent thinking he has to be on a set of deep rim Lightweights during a road stage for his story to be plausible,
but again,
I’ve yet to see any claims that extend beyond TT wheels. (specifically wheels he uses in TIME TRIALS… since you keep going back to wheels on his road bike)
So you can stop wasting your time searching pictures of Contador during road stages. That has nothing do do with this
I don’t recall anyone (including AC) saying he used anything other than Team issued Bontrager’s during the road stages.
I’m neither a fan of AC or LA…but his story is completely plausible.
At his level, he needs to have 100% confidence in his equipment.
For some reason he did not trust or have confidence in the wheels supplied
That could be because his disc & HED trispoke where not within his required tolerance…maybe some other performance characteristic was lacking…
who cares…
He didn’t like what he saw or felt with the team issued wheels
He felt it necessary to source his own wheel(s) for the time trials.
Did the Team Management refuse to provide him with his requested wheels?
and by requested, that simply could mean a better set than was provided.
I guess the answer is No,
(or we wouldn’t be pissing our days away with this thread would we).
Is there evidence that head games were being played on AC within the Team & possibly management?…
quite possibly.
This story may be evidence of such… but whether you or I deem it one way or another doesn’t doesn’t have any bearing on the root of the story.
Did he or didn’t he buy his own TT wheels, you have presented zero evidence to prove he didn’t. (mostly because you’ve been wasting your time looking at pictures of his road bike)
Since a disc wheel is easy to disguise (obviously very easy, since you can’t identify the disc he used) no sponsor’s feeling were hurt… especially since his disc was still branded with the Bontrager logo, albeit, the fact that Bontrager has never has manufactured a disc notwithstanding (but did sell rebranded disc sourced from Zipp for a short while, but not in 2008/2009)
but I digress…
I don’t think he (AC) needs to justify his reason to yourself or RKP.
The team didn’t react to what seems to be a pretty modest request from a superstar rider
(I will take it to the bank that LA would’ve had a truckload of wheels delivered within the hour if the tables were reversed)
But based on the evidence that you obviously can’t see
I choose to believe him until evidence to the contrary presents itself.
Now on to more important stuff
like did LA really bang an Olsen Twin…
That rear disc does look a lot more like a Lightweight than what I’ve seen in other shots. As Alberto is in the yellow jersey, the shot must be from the Annecy TT, not the prologue. I only looked at road stages in an effort to be thorough. And while this may clarify one wheel, he did use plural and I still don’t see how anyone could suggest that front wheel was made by anyone other than HED.
You’re almost there, Padraig. Just give up on the singular & plural argument for “wheel” vs. “wheels” and you’ve just about come around. The argument that he said he bought the wheels in Monaco before the Prologue just doesn’t preclude him from using that “wheel” in the ITT, does it? I am not sure who has made the claim that Contador was cheated, as far as I know it has only been you. Contador simply pointed out that the basics that you would expect to be provided to a team leader were not provided, cars to and from race start and finish lines and providing him a wheel he wanted to use. If you think it unseemly of him to reveal these matters, I suggest you consider Da Robot’s admission that perhaps he is only wishing for beheavior from Contador that he is not capable of himself.
Dude, give it up – eat the crow, it tastes like chicken. Take a deep breath, look at the long road and look with a clean vision – you are now arguing singular versus plural. You are a half step away from saying “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.” Actually, that might be ahead of you, not sure.
The guy said TT wheels, yet you looked at road wheels. You have now been presented with hard evidence and in the face of such evidence, which you agree is consistent with a lightweight wheel on a TT bike, you still argue that your point is valid. Come on, man, I simply can not take you seriously anymore – I’m not calling names, or resorting to a low bar, but, jeez, your writing had me go out and buy assos summer gloves – and I never fall for reviews. oh, and why did you look at pictures of road stages to be “thorough” if the guy said TT wheels. That’s not thorough, that’s a fool’s errands.
Repeat after me: “I padraig stand corrected.” Trust me, you will be doing yourself and RKP a favor.
Velomonkey, your rudeness astounds me.
Read this article, Levis is also on a LW disc
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/feb08/california08/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/probikes/levi_leipheimer_trek08
reason given was that:
Leipheimer’s rear wheel isn’t actually a Bontrager product in spite of the decal camouflaging; rather, it’s a Lightweight model from German outfit CarbonSports. According to Trek team liaison Ben Coates, the Wisconsin-based company gave Team Director Johan Bruyneel the freedom to choose which disc wheels Astana used in competition as Bontrager wasn’t able to produce enough of its own Aeolus TT discs for all of the riders. As it is, the Lightweight’s sub-900g weight offers a 200g advantage over the Aeolus anyway and its stiff feel made for a worthy substitute (albeit an expensive one as the team has to pay for them).
You can also see in pictures that Levis is riding a LW disc in the 2009 ToC.
I thought this was common knowledge, not fodder for conspiracies.